At the Berkeley Bowl, the nuts are off the shelf

[Gary Charpentier]

"There's a sense of entitlement to this town," Evans said. "People think, 'If I
want to do it, I'll do it, just try and stop me.' "

Kamikaze shoppers crash down crowded aisles without eye contact or apology for
fender-benders.

Outside, petitioners seeking signatures for ballot measures have come to blows
with opinionated residents. In the tiny parking lot, nicknamed the Berkeley
Brawl, frustrated motorists have been known to ram one another's cars. At the
checkout, people have thrown punches and unripened avocados at suspected
line-cutters.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bowl22-2008sep22,0,5955581.story

[axlq]

Post by Gary Charpentier
"There's a sense of entitlement to this town," Evans said. "People think, 'If I
want to do it, I'll do it, just try and stop me.' "
Kamikaze shoppers crash down crowded aisles without eye contact or apology for
fender-benders.

...

And Berkeley used to be such a nice, peaceful, family town. At least
when I lived there in the 1960s.

-A

[Serene Vannoy]

Post by Gary Charpentier
"There's a sense of entitlement to this town," Evans said. "People think, 'If I
want to do it, I'll do it, just try and stop me.' "
Kamikaze shoppers crash down crowded aisles without eye contact or apology for
fender-benders.
Outside, petitioners seeking signatures for ballot measures have come to blows
with opinionated residents. In the tiny parking lot, nicknamed the Berkeley
Brawl, frustrated motorists have been known to ram one another's cars. At the
checkout, people have thrown punches and unripened avocados at suspected
line-cutters.

I have been shopping at the Berkeley Bowl an average of three times a
week for four years, and this is just *nonsense*. It's often crowded,
yes, but I'd take the polite and orderly Bowl crowd over the ruffians at
our local Trader Joe's any day.

Serene

[lgblob]

Post by Gary Charpentier
"There's a sense of entitlement to this town," Evans said. "People think, 'If I
want to do it, I'll do it, just try and stop me.' "
Kamikaze shoppers crash down crowded aisles without eye contact or apology for
fender-benders.
Outside, petitioners seeking signatures for ballot measures have come to blows
with opinionated residents. In the tiny parking lot, nicknamed the Berkeley
Brawl, frustrated motorists have been known to ram one another's cars. At the
checkout, people have thrown punches and unripened avocados at suspected
line-cutters.

I have been shopping at the Berkeley Bowl an average of three times a week
for four years, and this is just *nonsense*. It's often crowded, yes, but
I'd take the polite and orderly Bowl crowd over the ruffians at our local
Trader Joe's any day.
Serene

Do you mean the Rockridge Trader Jose's? I haven't had a problem there.
It's almost Berkeley.

Blob

[Steve Pope]

Post by Gary Charpentier

Post by Gary Charpentier
"There's a sense of entitlement to this town," Evans said. "People

think, 'If I

Post by Gary Charpentier
want to do it, I'll do it, just try and stop me.' "
Kamikaze shoppers crash down crowded aisles without eye contact or apology for
fender-benders.

[snip]

Post by Gary Charpentier
I have been shopping at the Berkeley Bowl an average of three times a
week for four years, and this is just *nonsense*. It's often crowded,
yes, but I'd take the polite and orderly Bowl crowd over the ruffians at
our local Trader Joe's any day.

I do not think the article's characterization of Berkeley Bowl is
"nonsense" -- if you ask me the sense of shopper entitlement there
is stronger than at any other grocery store in the Bay Area,
and on par with that at a Berkeley Farmer's market.

Trader Joes shoppers are probably more inclined to haphazardly get
in your way, as opposed to pushing their way around you.

Hoever I don't think this L.A. Times article is in any way newsworthy.

Steve

[Chester]

Post by Steve Pope
I do not think the article's characterization of Berkeley Bowl is
"nonsense" -- if you ask me the sense of shopper entitlement there
is stronger than at any other grocery store in the Bay Area,
and on par with that at a Berkeley Farmer's market.

Yeah, but entitled to the point of hucking shit at each other, as the
article insinuates is a regular occurrence?

I don't doubt it's policy, that it gets implemented, and that there's
a need for it, but...has anyone ever seen or heard of anyone getting
permanently 86'ed due to sampling? I never have and have seen numerous
people openly trying out a piece of fruit before settling on a bag's
worth.

Chester

[Stef]

Post by Chester
I don't doubt it's policy, that it gets implemented, and that there's
a need for it, but...has anyone ever seen or heard of anyone getting
permanently 86'ed due to sampling? I never have and have seen numerous
people openly trying out a piece of fruit before settling on a bag's
worth.

Then you should shop at Whole Foods instead.
http://thecompanybitch.blogspot.com/2006/04/banned-from-whole-foods.html
--
Stef ** ***@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
I think "Golden Un-Completed Jigsaw Puzzle With Many Pieces Lost in the
Sofa Cushions" would be a more apt title. -- Stef's capsule review of
The Golden Compass

[Chester]

Post by Chester
I don't doubt it's policy, that it gets implemented, and that there's
a need for it, but...has anyone ever seen or heard of anyone getting
permanently 86'ed due to sampling? I never have and have seen numerous
people openly trying out a piece of fruit before settling on a bag's
worth.

Then you should shop at Whole Foods instead.http://thecompanybitch.blogspot.com/2006/04/banned-from-whole-foods.html

No thanks. I've never been a fan of Whole Foods. Thankfully, the only
reason to go to Whole Foods (in Berkeley) is because of the relatively
shorter opening hours of Berkeley Bowl and Monterey Market.

Chester

[Tak Nakamoto]

Post by Gary Charpentier
"There's a sense of entitlement to this town," Evans said. "People think, 'If I
want to do it, I'll do it, just try and stop me.' "
Kamikaze shoppers crash down crowded aisles without eye contact or apology for
fender-benders.
Outside, petitioners seeking signatures for ballot measures have come to blows
with opinionated residents. In the tiny parking lot, nicknamed the Berkeley
Brawl, frustrated motorists have been known to ram one another's cars. At the
checkout, people have thrown punches and unripened avocados at suspected
line-cutters.

The crowds will soon have an easier time of it. The second Berkeley Bowl in
West Berkeley is rising now. The foundation and structural steel work has
been completed. The internal, non-structural steel framing is now being
installed.

This grocery will be huge! Parking will be limited but that's always the
case. I think it is scheduled to open sometime next year.

And I'll be able to walk to it.

Tak Nakamoto

[axlq]

Post by Tak Nakamoto
This grocery will be huge! Parking will be limited but that's always the
case.

"Always the case"? Don't modern building codes for commercial zones
now include requirements for sufficient parking?

-A

[Steve Pope]

[West Berkeley Berkeley Bowl]

Post by axlq

Post by Tak Nakamoto
This grocery will be huge! Parking will be limited but that's
always the case.

"Always the case"? Don't modern building codes for commercial zones
now include requirements for sufficient parking?

This has to be a troll.

Steve

[axlq]

Post by Steve Pope
[West Berkeley Berkeley Bowl]

Post by axlq

Post by Tak Nakamoto
This grocery will be huge! Parking will be limited but that's
always the case.

"Always the case"? Don't modern building codes for commercial zones
now include requirements for sufficient parking?

This has to be a troll.

Who? Me or Tak? I wasn't asking a rhetorical question there.

-A

[Steve Pope]

Post by axlq

Post by Steve Pope

Post by axlq
"Always the case"? Don't modern building codes for commercial zones
now include requirements for sufficient parking?

This has to be a troll.

Who? Me or Tak? I wasn't asking a rhetorical question there.

Surely you are aware that Berkeley imposes a maximum rather
than a minumum on the amount of parking associated with a new
construction project.

Steve

[Chester]

Post by Steve Pope

Post by Steve Pope

"Always the case"?  Don't modern building codes for commercial zones
now include requirements for sufficient parking?

This has to be a troll.

Who?  Me or Tak?  I wasn't asking a rhetorical question there.

Surely you are aware that Berkeley imposes a maximum rather
than a minumum on the amount of parking associated with a new
construction project.

And, in general, there are ways for developers to play with numbers a
bit so that there is at least a marginal lack of parking. And,
furthermore, cities are financially incentivized to give developers
the benefit of the doubt, when it comes to retail centers.

Chester

[axlq]

Post by Steve Pope

Post by axlq

Post by Steve Pope

Post by axlq
"Always the case"? Don't modern building codes for commercial zones
now include requirements for sufficient parking?

This has to be a troll.

Who? Me or Tak? I wasn't asking a rhetorical question there.

Surely you are aware that Berkeley imposes a maximum rather
than a minumum on the amount of parking associated with a new
construction project.

You're joking, right?

-A

[Steve Pope]

Post by axlq

Post by Steve Pope
Surely you are aware that Berkeley imposes a maximum rather
than a minumum on the amount of parking associated with a new
construction project.

You're joking, right?

*headdesk*

No, not joking. Yes, I favor such policies too, being a
left-liberal.

Steve

[Gary Charpentier]

Post by Steve Pope

Post by axlq

Post by Steve Pope
Surely you are aware that Berkeley imposes a maximum rather
than a minumum on the amount of parking associated with a new
construction project.

You're joking, right?

*headdesk*
No, not joking. Yes, I favor such policies too, being a
left-liberal.

Around and around the parking lot we go. Massive amounts of carbon coming out
our tail pipe.

[Steve Pope]

Post by Gary Charpentier

Post by Steve Pope
No, not joking. Yes, I favor such policies too, being a
left-liberal.

Around and around the parking lot we go. Massive amounts of carbon coming out
our tail pipe.

Offending vehicles of this sort can be clamped.

Steve

[Gary Charpentier]

Post by Steve Pope

Post by Gary Charpentier

Post by Steve Pope
No, not joking. Yes, I favor such policies too, being a
left-liberal.

Around and around the parking lot we go. Massive amounts of carbon coming out
our tail pipe.

Offending vehicles of this sort can be clamped.

Is that before or after they drive over the person attempting the clamping?

[Tak Nakamoto]

"Tak Nakamoto" wrote >

Post by Tak Nakamoto
This grocery will be huge! Parking will be limited but that's always the
case. I think it is scheduled to open sometime next year.
And I'll be able to walk to it.

Wow! What a lot of responses to an offhand remark.

My feeling is that Berkeley Bowl's parking will be limited not because of
zoning or any other local govt intervention but because of the economics.
Commercial/industrial land is expensive, rare and limited in lot size here
in West Berkeley. As it is, the new Berkeley Bowl appears to be building
most of its parking underground. This is much more expensive than ground
level parking especially here in an area with a fairly high water table.
Given Berkeley Bowl's immense draw there's no way that the store could build
enough parking in this area. Hence parking will be limited.

The existing Berkeley Bowl is in an old 60's era Safeway store. I remember
that the parking was more than enough for the Safeway and utterly inadequate
for Berkeley Bowl. The type of use didn't change but the tenant did. There's
no way for zoning to account for this great a disparity.

In order to build this new store, Berkeley Bowl was fortunate to be able to
acquire two adjoining lots which were available simultaneously from two
separate sellers. One of the lots had been used as the site of a roofing
chemicals supply company. The other lot has an interesting immediate past
history.

This lot was in use as the site of "Kona Kai Farms" urban organic farm.
Until this past year, one could still see the raised garden beds which were
used to grow organic baby greens for sale to restaurants and stores. Kona
Kai Farms made most of its money selling supposedly high grade Kona coffee.
That is until it was exposed as a fraud. They had actually been selling low
grade Costa Rican coffee labeled as Kona. The proprietor was convicted in
Federal court of several counts including tax evasion. It appears that the
organic gardens were just a pretty, "feel good" front. The farm went defunct
as soon as the scam was exposed.

Before its use as a farm, it was part of the lot of the factory building
which now houses Scharffenberger Chocolates.

Tak Nakamoto

[Pete Fraser]

[BB's] lot was in use as the site of "Kona Kai Farms" urban organic farm.
Until this past year, one could still see the raised garden beds which
were used to grow organic baby greens for sale to restaurants and stores.
Kona Kai Farms made most of its money selling supposedly high grade Kona
coffee. That is until it was exposed as a fraud. They had actually been
selling low grade Costa Rican coffee labeled as Kona. The proprietor was
convicted in Federal court of several counts including tax evasion. It
appears that the organic gardens were just a pretty, "feel good" front.
The farm went defunct as soon as the scam was exposed.

You seem a sound source of Berkeley retail lore, so perhaps you (or another
ba.foodie) can clear up something that's been nagging me for a while.

I used to work on 9th Street (between Parker and Dwight) and remember
arriving one morning to observe a bunch of ATF agents crawling over
the smoldering rubble that used to be Cocolat's headquarters.
Was that ever resolved? I think everybody believed it to be arson, but
despite an occasional perfunctory Googling, I've never found out who did
it or why.

Pete

[Tak Nakamoto]

"Pete Fraser" wrote in>

Post by Pete Fraser
I used to work on 9th Street (between Parker and Dwight) and remember
arriving one morning to observe a bunch of ATF agents crawling over
the smoldering rubble that used to be Cocolat's headquarters.
Was that ever resolved? I think everybody believed it to be arson, but
despite an occasional perfunctory Googling, I've never found out who did
it or why.

I have a feeling that this happened before we moved to the area. Do you
remember what year this was?

The only burnt out building that I remember seeing was a corner house that
had been converted to some business use. This would have been at the corner
of 8th Street and Grayson. Of course its gone now, replaced by three very
concept condos.

I'd like to ask around about it. It makes my dog walks much more interesting
when there's a small story about each block I walk on..

Tak Nakamoto

[Pete Fraser]

I have a feeling that [Cocolat was torched] before we moved to the area.
Do you remember what year this was?

I think it was 1991.

The only burnt out building that I remember seeing was a corner house that
had been converted to some business use. This would have been at the
corner of 8th Street and Grayson. Of course its gone now, replaced by
three very concept condos.

I remember it as being the NE corner of Parker and 9th,
but I could well be wrong. It was certainly bigger than a
converted house.

There were rumors of financial problems and L Ron Hubbard involvement.

Pete

[Tak Nakamoto]

"Pete Fraser" wrote >

Post by Pete Fraser
I think it was 1991.
I remember it as being the NE corner of Parker and 9th,
but I could well be wrong. It was certainly bigger than a
converted house.
There were rumors of financial problems and L Ron Hubbard involvement.

I spent a few minutes Googling this out of curiosity. The SF Chronicle
database only goes back to 1995 and none of the other local newspapers even
go that far. All I found were online listings of library hardcopy clippings.

But the arson fire took place around November 20, 1991. At the time Cocolat
had been sold by its founder Alice Medrich to a Palo Alto based investment
banking firm headed by people involved in Scientology. The firm was
struggling to pay its bills and rumors of bankruptcy had been making the
rounds. The fire destroyed the manufacturing plant then located at 9th and
Parker.

I found no references to this arson fire having been solved. The firm went
under a couple of years later.

I'll ask around the neighborhood.


Tak Nakamoto

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Tak Nakamoto
The existing Berkeley Bowl is in an old 60's era Safeway store. I remember
that the parking was more than enough for the Safeway and utterly inadequate
for Berkeley Bowl. The type of use didn't change but the tenant did. There's
no way for zoning to account for this great a disparity.

I thought Berkeley Bowl occupied a former bowling alley. Or was that a
previous incarnation?

[Steve Pope]

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Tak Nakamoto
The existing Berkeley Bowl is in an old 60's era Safeway store. I remember
that the parking was more than enough for the Safeway and utterly inadequate
for Berkeley Bowl. The type of use didn't change but the tenant did. There's
no way for zoning to account for this great a disparity.

I thought Berkeley Bowl occupied a former bowling alley. Or was that a
previous incarnation?

Correct, when it was on the east side of Shattuck.

Steve